lucky bastard! I've never seen the dees win a premiership.. my dad has.. last time he saw it was when he was 10 (he's 53). Jeez that was along time ago, 3 years before the lisbon lions!
Roll on the day that i finally see it. Who knows, i may evem shed a tear.
Congrats to the hawks and all hawks fans!

Jesus Bloody Christ that was immense! I can't believe we won, and I was there. This is surreal. This is the reason Dew came out of retirement. Buddy didn't do anything. Mitchell did nothing. Crawford has a Grand Final medallion now and can retire in happiness. It is just unreal what we have achieved today. Can't wait for next year to see if we can go back to back.

I was watching the ABC news earlier this evening with the old man (a long-suffering Demon supporter as you well know), and they were showing interviews with fans pre-game ... some Hawthorn bitch came on, complaining that it had been soooo long since the Hawks had last won a flag. He snorted and gave a loud "not as long as some!" (he turned 50 this year ... remembers 1964 just barely).

Can't say I wanted Hawthorn to win pre-game, during the game, and was disappointed for a few Geelong players (Ablett mainly - shit week for the lad) after the siren but Hawthorn were the better team on the day. Some Geelong players had stinkers (Mooney, Stokes, Lonergan and Varcoe mainly), while a couple of Hawthorn blokes played the first good game of their careers (Xavier Ellis and Young before he went off), and in the end that made all the difference.

At least I can take some solace from the fact that Crawf, the most deserving player in the comp of wearing a Premiership medallion, finally got one ... and that Vandenberg didn't, the cock.

I just hope we're back up there next year, I'm beginning to get sick of not seeing my team in September.

Ellis had a brilliant game, his best ever for us. Great day for him to play his best game for us. Anyone also see Young's goal from around 65m out? My god that was a monster kick, considering how small he looks. He has a freakish left foot.

Mainly because Luca asked me to, I'm going explain the field positions and a few other things about AFL football. Other people interested can use this as well.














Back Pocket: A Back Pocket is a defender who is, almost always, not the best defender. They usually man up on the 2nd or 3rd choice forwards or small forwards, the Forward Pockets. Due to modern tactics, the Back Pocket has become more strategic then back in the yesteryears. Back Pockets now are generally players who play more as a Half-Back Flank, which will be described later, and set up attacks out of the Backline, but do not move up the field like Half-Back Flanks.
e.g. Campbell Brown, Tom Harley, Dale Morris

Full Back: The Full Back is the lynch pin in a team's backline. The Full Back will usually take the opposition team's best forward, or a forward who is staying inside the 50 metre arc, usually the Full Forward. A Full Back is usually around the same height as a Full Forward, around 188-200 cm.
e.g. Matthew Scarlett, Brian Lake, Darren Glass

Half-Back Flank: A Half-Back Flank is a player who is not as defensive as a Back Pocket, but they still man up on an opposition player with the intent of negating them, usually the Half-Forward Flank. A Half-Back Flank will be more attacking then a Back Pocket as the will push into the midfield as their opposition does so too. The also can move up the ground towards the attacking 50 metres and do actually score goals. Back Pockets and Full Backs rarely do this.
e.g. Andrew McLeod, Heath Shaw, Tadgh Kennelly

Centre-Half Back: A Centre-Half Back is the player who takes the oppositions Centre-Half Forward. This position is not the same as a Full Back ,although they both are meant to stop the opposition forward which they are playing on from scoring goals. Generally Centre-Half Forwards will push up the ground into the midfield, so a Centre-Half Back is fitter and a better runner then a Full Back.
e.g. Trent Croad, Nathan Bock, Sam Fisher

Wing: This position is not hard to explain. It is basically like a wing in football/soccer. They run the sides of the oval and are generally fast and long kicks, although a trend which seems to be getting bigger is to have tall, athletic players on the wings so they can take marks over the smaller midfielders who would be playing on them, a la Matthew Richardson.
e.g. Chance Bateman, Adam Goodes, Matthew Richardson

Centre: As with most sports, they evolve, and this position as has evolved too. A Centre used to sit in the Centre Square and direct the ball flow moving through the middle of the ground. But in modern times, Centres have become fitter and now follow the ball around the ground like a Follower. Centres are typical midfielders who are fit, generally not that tall and have a good disposal of the ball(kick and handball).
e.g. Sam Mitchell, Jimmy Bartel, Scott Pendlebury

Half-Forward Flank: A Half-Forward Flank is a player who is a forward, but they push into the midfield and have more goal assists then traditional forwards. Generally they are short and fast players who can evade opposition players and give the ball to traditional forwards.
e.g. Steve Johnson(can play as a traditional forward too), Ryan O'Keefe, Brent Harvey

Centre-Half Forward: The Centre-Half Forward is, traditionally, the most important forward. These players push into the midfield and get the ball into their attacking 50 metres, but also are major contributors as goal kickers. A Centre-Half Forward is basically a more productive and useful version of a Full Forward. They are generally players who are big and tall, around 188-200 cm.
e.g. Jonathan Brown, Matthew Pavlich, Travis Cloke

Forward Pocket: Forward Pockets are the sideshows to the Full Forward. They can be tall forwards who aren't as good as the Full Forward, a medium sized forward who is awkward to match up on, or a small forward who gets the ball in general play and is not a key target in the forward line.
e.g. Cyril "Junior" Rioli, Paul Medhurst, Michael O'Loughlan

Full Forward: The main target in a team's attacking 50 metres, the Full Forward is a player who is usually the same size as a Centre-Half Forward, but they don't generally move up the ground the get the ball. They sit inside the forward 50 metres and wait until the ball gets to them. The are generally the best shot at goal, but in Hawthorn's case, the worst .
e.g. Lance "Buddy" Franklin, Brendan Fevola, Matthew Lloyd

Ruck: A Ruck is a player who is generally the tallest player in the team. Around 200 cm is the average height. Ruckmen are the players who jump when the ball is bounced, and attempt to tap the ball to their teams advantage. Ruckmen can also be placed in the forward line to add some height. This is useful against undersized backlines.
e.g. Dean Cox, Aaron Sandilands, David Hille

Ruck/Rover: A ruck/Rover used to be a player who was taller then the average midfielder and would sometimes do the ruckwork in place of the Ruckmen. Alas, in modern times Ruckmen are fitter and faster so the Ruck/Rover has merely become another midfielder who follows the ball.
e.g. Adam Goodes, Chris Judd, Brad Sewell

Rover: Rovers traditionally are short midfielders who hang around the edge of a pack, waiting for the ball to spill out so they can get it. Nowadays, Rovers are just the same as most midfielders and follow the ball.
e.g. Sam Mitchell, Gary Ablett, Adam Cooney

Tagger: A Tagger is a player who sacrifices his own game to take out a very good player from the opposing team. Not all Taggers sacrifice their game though. Some are good enough to take an opposing player out of the game but still get plenty of possessions them self. A Tagger will take another player out by following the player wherever they go, so whenever the player they're tagging gets the ball that player gets tackled. Or the stick on the player so the ball won't go to that player.
e.g. Robert Shirley, Brad Sewell, Jared Crouch

Utility: A Utility is a player who is able to play in more then 1-2 positions. Utilities are usually tall and athletic, so the can play as a tall player or a small player. Utilites often switch between Foward, Back and Midfield.
e.g. Adam Goodes, Matthew Richardson, Lance Franklin

Key Position: A Key Position player is someone who holds down one of the 4 most crucial positions on the field. Full Back, Centre-Half Back, Centre-Half Forward, Full Forward. A Key Position player is tall so they can be formed to play in whichever position.
e.g. Jonathan Brown, Matthew Pavlich, Lance Franklin

Spine: The Spine of the field basically consists of the positions which go through the centre of the field. Full Back, Centre-Half Back, Centre, Centre-Half Forward, Full Forward, Ruckmen.

Set Shot: A Set Shot is when a player has either marked the ball or has received a free kick, and is having a shot at the goals.

There are still more things but they are too numerous.

i watch afl if there is absolutely nothing else on tv, so i have watched a fair few games (usually the swannies), yet i still have hardly picked up the rules, i doubt anyone can pick it up by reading them, but good luck to em

But the thing is with AFL, the rules are applied more through an umpire's perception then any other sport. The sport has the least consistent rule applications as the decisions are based solely on an umpire's perception so it makes it hard for someone who didn't grow up with it to learn the rules.

Basically the point is to kablam the ball through the giant poles with your foot and stop the other team from kablamming the ball through your poles. Oh and ofcourse kick the living shit out of your opponents.

A bit late, but how the FUCK did Sam Mitchell not get suspended for either his head high bump or certifiable clothesline on Gary Ablett. What a disgrace.

You have understood it well, young one. But there is still far more to learn which may be a daunting task within itself.


With the 'alleged' head high bump, he did not touch Ablett's head, it was his shoulder. Watch the footage. And with the clothesline, you don't get suspended for high contact, that is just a free kick.

Swannies will be back next season! And shit as usual.

Lovett on his way to Swannies.

thanks Bob that was a good read.

1. where are the followers positioned on the field?
2. who are your top 10 players in general positions aside.
3. im guessing you'd say Buddy Franklin as no.1 so on that who would you swap for him?

1. Followers are the guys who are at the ball up at the start of a game or after a goal is kicked. They follow the ball all over the ground and are stupidly fit.
#1 Buddy Franklin
#2 Gary Ablett
#3 Dean Cox
#4 Matthew Pavlich
#5 Luke Hodge
#6 Jonathan Brown
#7 Brett Kirk
#8 Jimmy Bartel(before this year)
#9 Brendan Fevola
#10 Chris Judd(when he was at West Coast, if he was still there he would be much higher, in more ways then one )
3. There is no-one in the league more valuable then Buddy at the moment. He is young, a Key Position Player, extremely good, doesn't seem to get injured, a superstar and will draw crowds all by himself. The only way he would be traded was if there where trades before with Geelong so they had Picks #1, #2, #3, Colin Garland and Gary Ablett. That package would be suffice. Basically there is no possible way for Buddy to go anywhere else until he is either 30ish or has had a major injury, which will happen eventually. Probably a shoulder or a knee.

Or if he strikes out...

That won't happen because Buddy is like the second, third and fourth coming of Jesus. Have you heard about the 100 girls in 100 days thing? That just proves it. Plus the amount of poon he gets Roughead proves just how awesome he is.

Well I really struggle to see the 'hybrid' of the International Rules. It's just Gaelic Football with point posts, tackling and handballs. The rules were all pretty much from the Gaelic form.

IMO the advantage we have with the ball is countered by the advantage you have with the tackling laws. Though perhaps switching balls at half time / between tests would be interesting.

No the ball outweighs any advantage we have by miles. This game is basically Gaelic with a slight hint of AFL. Why do you think how guys can't kick the damn thing and go on massive runs with the ball while the Irish get rid of it quickly? Also, the rules are different for the Irish. They're allowed to hit the ball with an open hand while the Aussies aren't. That doesn't sound to 'hybrid' to me.

But I agree with the ball change idea. The should have one game with the round ball and one game with the oval ball, but that would be extremely unfair because the score would end up being huge for the Aussies.

Buddy plays for Hawthorn; a side who controls most of the possession and Buddy gets a lot of balls kicked to him. He's a special player, but if Fevola played for Hawthorn, he'd end up kicking 130 goals a season.

Fevola is a truly talented player, but i doubt he will have another super season.
And even if he was in a team like Hawthorn, i doubt he will be able to score over 100 goals.

Do you watch Fevola play every week? I think he's the best full forward by a long shot. Whether you agree with me or not.

Chris Judd turned Carlton around by himself. He worked his ass off all season long. He dominates hard ball gets.

Fevola is more of your typical lead-up mark forward, like back in the good ol' days of Lockett, Dunstall, Hudson, Coleman etc. Buddy is more of a crumbing tall forward who is also a lead-up mark forward. He is the closest thing anyone has ever seen to a perfect forward. Tall, agile, fast, strong, good around his feet, great contested mark and can kick the impossible goals, but the only problem with him is, obviously, his kicking. But that's not important when he kicks over 100 goals in a season at the age of 21. But with Fevola, he gets around 70% of all the football going into Carlton's forward 50. Now it doesn't matter which team you play for, you should be kicking an absolute dickload of goals with that much service, be it good or bad. Buddy has 2 other forwards to compete with and gets about 30-40% of the delivery yet was still able to kick over 100 goals with another player able to kick over 70 goals right next to him. Now with this all said and done, Fevola is the better Full Forward, in the traditional meaning of the term, but Buddy is the far better player.

Judd hardly turned Carlton around by himself, they still finished well out of the finals with a young midfield who should have improved. He isn't the messiah like so many Carlton supporters keep saying, as he will never be as good as he was at West Coast. He will still be good, but won't be anywhere near the level he was at at the Eagles. There are now many midfielders whom I, and many other people, would prefer over him. Also, he gets so many hard ball gets because there is no-one else to get them at Carlton. Bryce Gibbs has become more of a tagger/half back who isn't an in and under midfielder, Murphy is a receiver and Stevens hangs out on the half-back line and the back of packs to get the non-contested possessions. Now compare this to Hawthorn, mainly because I go for them and I do realise this is grossly unfair to Carlton, but they have Mitchell, Sewell, Hodge and Lewis all getting the hard ball gets, but that has left us with no outside mids, also with Ellis starting to get a fair few.

I don't know why you're comparing Carlton to Hawthorn? I compare Fevola to Buddy as I want Fevola to get more praise. No doubt Buddy is one of the most complete players to ever play the game, but as a goal scorer, I put the Fev ahead of him. That's all I have to really say about that. Buddy's playing style is revolutionary and very exciting for the game.

I don't see Judd as the messiah, but he's made a huge difference. He's got people interested again. All the kids that do see him as the messiah, that's because OF HIM. People who expected a Grand Final place or something similar are dreamers. Carlton had a bad run for a long time, so to look very good against good sides felt very special to watch.

I can't think of enough good things to say about Bryce Gibbs. Murphy is disappointing at times. He gets a real lot of the ball and he gives the ball away so often. He's a very good player, I just wish he wouldn't give the ball away as often. Kade Simpson is somebody people seem to forget about. He doesn't get the ball as much as Murphy, but when he does get the ball, he does good things with it. He's one of my favourite players for sure.

I wasn't really comparing Hawthorn to Carlton, just giving an example of how other teams actually have more then 1 player getting the hard ball gets.

Just something about what you said, you said that as a goal scorer Fevola is better, yet Buddy kicked more goals with less traffic towards him. Surely you just mean in terms of accuracy, as Buddy is the overall best forward and a forwards main objective is the kick goals.

Oh, and Kade Simpson is fair rubbish. I know that you disagree with me, but I you also. He just isn't a very good player and is lucky that he has been playing at a club which has been very poor during his time there.

I think you might be biased, we're not going to agree about this Fev/Bud thing. I don't know what else to say.

Kade doesn't do a lot wrong, so I don't know how rubbish he is. You could be very right here, I don't really know. I've just found him easy to like as he always plays and he does all right. What do you think the big issue with him is?

I'm biased yet you also obviously go for Carlton. Really makes you think...

With Kade, firstly his name is terrible, but he just can't do anything apart from getting the ball on his own and kicking. He is extremely one-dimensional as that is as much as he could ever do,k and he doesn't even do that well a job at it, as he doesn't have the size to be a Key Position player, obviously. Doesn't have the bulk or skill to be an in and under midfielder and could only really be a mediocre receiver.

I might be biased, but I speak highly of Fevola because I feel it's right to do that. I don't really do it about anybody else.

Kade is usually on the wing or in the pockets. He isn't a target, he's not a player we depend on, but he does all right. I like him because when he gets the ball, he hits people on the chest and he doesn't muck around. That's not rubbish.

Brendan Fevola is a much better FORWARD than Lance Franklin, I can't see how anyone could argue with that. Also, to suggest that Fevola gets 2x more service than Franklin is laughable. Franklin plays for the second best team in the league who have a pretty good midfield and more often than not the ball in is their half. He also recieves AT LEAST 50% of the ball that's kicked into the forward fifty, and even more towards the start of '08. Whereas Fevola (barring this year) has been playing in a disgraceful team with a combination of young and shit midfield, while percentage-wise might get more of the ball that comes into Carlton's forward fifty, the fact that it rarely gets down there means OVERALL Franklin gets more of the ball.

No, Fevola actually gets more deliveries to him. Percentage-wise or not, Fevola gets more. Also, how can Fevola be a better forward when he has kicked less goals with more service? Please, people, if you're going to say Fevola is a better forward please say "in the traditional lead-up mark forward who kicks goals from set shots". Buddy is a better all-round forward as he can crumb, is great around his feet, can mark, kick long, can play as an up the ground forward, can play in the goal square and is able to play as any type of forward, be it small, medium or tall.

Fev can't do any of those things?

He can but he isn't as good.

Oh, okay, I see. That's really interesting.

Could you please elaborate as to why?

It's interesting how you think Buddy is so much better.

Why, wouldn't it be a fair assumption considering he got less of the ball, yet kicked more goals and is far younger?

Not a bad guess, I must say. Just ignore the stuff about Travis Tuck, although he did get a few games this year and was pretty good.

Round 1
1. Melbourne -- Jack Watts (Sandringham Dragons)
2. West Coast Eagles -- Nicholas Naitanui (Swan Districts)
3. Fremantle -- Stephen Hill (West Perth)
4. Port Adelaide -- Hamish Hartlett (West Adelaide)
5. Essendon -- Michael Hurley (Northern Knights)
6. Carlton -- Chris Yarran (Swan Districts)
7. Brisbane Lions -- Daniel Rich (Subiaco)
8. Richmond -- Tyrone Vickery (Sandringham Dragons)
9. North Melbourne -- Jack Ziebell (Murray Bushrangers)
10. Adelaide -- Phil Davis (North Adelaide)
11. Collingwood -- Steele Sidebottom (Murray Bushrangers)
12. Sydney -- Lewis Johnston (North Adelaide)
13. St Kilda -- Tom Lynch (Sandringham Dragons)
14. Western Bulldogs -- Ayce Cordy (Geelong Falcons) – Father/Son
15. Geelong -- Mitchell Brown (Sandringham Dragons)
16. Hawthorn -- Ryan Schoenmakers (Norwood)

Priority picks
17. Melbourne -- Sam Blease (Eastern Ranges)
18. West Coast Eagles -- Luke Shuey (Oakleigh Chargers)

Round 2
19. Melbourne -- James Strauss (Oakleigh Chargers)
20. West Coast Eagles -- Tom Swift (Claremont)
21. Fremantle -- Hayden Ballantyne (Peel Thunder)
22. Port Adelaide -- Jackson Trengove (Calder Cannons)
23. Essendon -- David Zaharakis (Northern Knights)
24. Fremantle -- Nicholas Suban (North Ballarat Rebels)
25. Brisbane Lions -- Jack Redden (Glenelg)
26. Richmond -- Jaydyn Post (Western Jets)
27. North Melbourne -- Samuel Wright (Murray Bushrangers)
28. Adelaide -- Shaun McKernan (Calder Cannons)
29. Collingwood -- Dayne Beams (Southport Sharks)
30. Sydney -- Daniel Hannebery (Oakleigh Chargers)
31. Western Bulldogs -- Jordan Roughead (North Ballarat Rebels)
32. Western Bulldogs -- Liam Jones (Scotch College)
33. Geelong -- Thomas Gillies (Dandenong Stingrays)
34. Hawthorn -- Liam Shiels (Boronia)

Round 3
35. Melbourne -- Jamie Bennell (Swans Districts)
36. West Coast Eagles -- Ashley Smith (Dandenong Stingrays)
37. Fremantle -- Zachary Clarke (Oakleigh Chargers)
38. Port Adelaide -- Matthew Broadbent (Woodville-West Torrens)
39. Geelong -- Steven Motlop (Wanderers)
40. Carlton -- Mitch Robinson (Tassie Devils)
41. Brisbane Lions -- Todd Banfield (Swans Districts)
42. Port Adelaide -- Mitchell Banner (Western Jets)
43. North Melbourne -- Liam Anthony (East Fremantle)
44. Adelaide -- Rory Sloane (Eastern Ranges)
45. Collingwood -- Jarrad Blight (Swan Districts)
46. Collingwood -- Luke Rounds (Geelong Falcons)
47. St Kilda -- Rhys Stanley (West Adelaide)
48. St.Kilda -- Nicholas Heyne (Orbost Snowy ranges)
49. Geelong -- Taylor Hunt (Sandringham Dragons)
50. Hawthorn -- Jordan Lisle (Oakleigh Chargers)

Round 4
51. Melbourne -- Neville Jetta (Swan Districts)
52. West Coast Eagles -- Jordan Jones (Geelong Falcons)
53. Fremantle -- Michael Walters (Swan Districts)
54. Port Adelaide -- Jarrad Redden (Woodville-West Torrens
55. Essendon -- Michael Still (Northern Knights)
56. Fremantle -- Benjamin Bucovaz (Geelong Falcons)
57. Brisbane Lions -- Aaron Cornelius (Tassie Devils)
58. Richmond -- Thomas Hislop (Essendon)
59. North Melbourne -- Nathan O'Keefe (Eastern Ranges)
60. Adelaide -- Thomas Lee (Claremont)
61. Sydney -- Campbell Heath (Gippsland Power)
62. St Kilda -- Alistair Smith (Perth)
63. Hawthorn -- Luke Lowden (Sandringham Dragons)

Round 5
64. Melbourne -- Rohan Bail (Mt Gravatt)
65. Carlton -- Rhys O'Keefe (North Adelaide)
66. Port Adelaide -- Glenn Dawson (Woodville-West Torrens)
67. Essendon -- Tyson Slattery (West Adelaide)
68. Fremantle -- Tim Ruffles (North Ballarat City)
69. Brisbane Lions -- Bart McCulloch (South Launceston)
70. Richmond -- Pass
71. Nth Melbourne -- Warren Benjamin (Claremont)
72. Adelaide -- William Young (North Ballarat Rebels)
73. Collingwood -- Leigh Brown (North Melbourne)
74. St Kilda -- Paul Cahill (Sturt)
75. Hawthorn -- Shane Savage (Dandenong Stingrays)

Round 6
76. Melbourne -- Pass
77. Fremantle -- Christopher Hall (Woodville-West Torrens)
78. Port Adelaide -- Jason Davenport (Geelong)
79. Essendon -- Pass
80. Carlton -- Caleb Tiller (Murray Bushrangers)
81. Brisbane Lions -- Kieran King (East Fremantle)
82. Brisbane Lions -- Pass
83. St Kilda -- Colm Begley (Brisbane Lions)

Round 7
84. Port Adelaide -- Pass
85. Carlton -- Pass

Very happy with Hawthorn's draftees this year. Lisle was tipped to be taken with our first pick, and was All-Australian CHB, yet we managed to get him with pick 50. It seems Freo may have made a little error again as with their second pick they drafted a guy who is turning 22 next year and isn't very good. That's what I've heard, don't hold me to my word.

Ballantyne? Last season's Sandover Medallist, kicked 75 goals playing as a small forward with stints on the ball ... although he is mature age, he's very, very good and will play in the seniors for Freo next year.

As for the Kade Simpson debate ... on a purely better player basis, I would take him over Marc Murphy (a #1 pick no less). Very solid player is Simpson, Murphy battles.

There were some seriously good players overlooked in the draft though. Tom Rockliff, who set up 9 of Steele's 10 goals in the TAC Cup Grand Final, wasn't picked up but he should be a certainty for the Rookie Draft. DeBoer is another palyer, and Sheahan. All three of these guys were tipped fairly highly alos.

Not suggesting anything, but you must recognise that clubs know much more about certain players - medical reports and negative diagnoses, personal lives, family etc - than the media/general public, perhaps influencing where players are taken or if they are taken at all.

Can either of you guys tell me anything about Richmonds picks? I know about Hislop, but not the other two.

This draft is a superdraft so pretty much every single player picked up is good. This draft may prove to be better then the 2001 draft, but that's just my opinion.

Vickery is a 200cm ruckmen/forward who is very agile for a man his size and a good player.

Post is a 196cm Key Position Player who played one of the greatest ever matches in the TAC Cup where he had 35 possessions and took 18 marks, playing at Fullback I think. To be honest, I wouldn't mind having the kid at Hawthorn, could prove to be a bargain.

Hislop is a bit of a rogue, but has potential. Was picked at 20 a couple of years ago, but due to injuries and a poor attitude was delisted from Essendon. The kid may prove to be something, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

killer draft for WCE naitanui,swift,smith and shuey

You would expect that considering the picks, but they did do well regardless. I'm actually expecting all of them to play next year, the midfield will be one to watch in a few years.

Yeh looking forward to watching Swift play.