It looks like Umbro is copying Adidas, cause the new X-boots have the same "window" where you can see the insole through, as Adidas Predator Absolutes have, and on the "window" of the x-boots are, how surprising , two studs, like on the absolutes.

so is umbro fakin adidas or what ???

If you are going to say Umbro is copying Adidas, which they very well migth be doing then we have to go back a while.

The Puma Cellerator was the first shoe was the sole window so therefore Adidas copied Puma.

what are you meaning

there is no window where you can see the insole through

my umbro elite xs which i gt over a year ago have a clear bit

i reckon adidas copy everyone elso cos its always somebody is copying adidas but it cud be the other way round

i had a pair of puma cellerators porbaly 7 years ago maybe 6, the black ones, you could see through the heel, it was like clear but it was like u were looing through a red honeycomb...

^^^^^ Thank you thats the cellerators i meant

adidas is part of Umbro or vise versa.

^^^whered you get that information?

reebok is part of adidas...

No, reebok is owned by adidas, theyr not a part of anything! And why is that clear bit so important if you paid attention to every detial on a boot you'd get about 200 different boots adidas stole designs from! And why do you guys care if one company copies another they'r obviously doing it and they will keep doing it no matter how manny threads you make so complain about the quailty of the product not the fact that its a clone of another boot!

Find the original boot that had the External Heel Counter and we'll make a new topic of which company stole that idea...then the other company stole from the second company and so on...If it's good enough, they'll use it.

If they didn't "steal" ideas we wouldn't have:

Assymetric Lacing
Synthetic material
External heel counters
Swerve elements
Elastic tounge straps
Split soles
Velcro tounges
Carbon fibre soleplates
Sockliners

It all has to start from somewhere...think about it.

guys calm down just wanted to say that cause its obvisiouly umbro copyin adidas predator absolute straight ahead

they did exactly they same thing exactly same looking at the exactly same place with the the exactly same two studs on it, etc.

thats what i wanted to say not that they have a little small "window" somewhere under the boot where you can see somethin through

in this case it is just so damn clear that they took the absolute and copied this window right on this place, where you can see the insole through

and if some clever guy now says "hahaha wait adidas copied Umbro hahaha why not haha" than i can says "guy sit down and relax and hold up for a second cause the absolute was there first ... so who copied who ... he ... right umbro copied adidas cause adidas was there first ... OK"

please dont be so aggressive here its just a normal topic guys


btw i said copyin not fakin.

fakin: someone invented the assymetrical lacing and you see this BUT put another assymetrical lacing on your boot SAME IDEA BUT NOT THE SAME WAY OF DOIN IT

copyin: someone invented the assymetrical lacing and you see this AND put the same assymetrical lacing on your boot SAME IDEA AND THE SAME WAY OF DOIN IT

... just to get things clear right now

the fact is everyone uses the same stud config that adidas uses...and who know maybe adidas wasn' even the first to come up with it! they were just the first to give it a name. and u must remember that boots aren't made overnight. its not liek umbro say the power pulse viewing window that adidas made and then made a boot to copy the idea. it takes years for a boot to go through at least the development phases, not to mention how long it takes after its all ready to hit the market.-B G

^^Couldnt agree more because how can you argue with facts, I dont think onkel-ruppi knows much about productions of boots and such, by the time adidas released absolutes, umbro would have been half way through the test stage of the boot and unless they have someone spying on adidas i dont see how umbro could have copied adidas! Besides wasnt craly selling these before the absolutes were released to the public!

Exactly.


...and I wouldnt call it stealing, rather historical development. Of the wheel is reinvented (round!) by every new car company. The process of innovation and design is all about building on an existing idea to improve and add. Just look at any patent application. Existing patents on which a new patent is founded are listed. A nike patent may reference an adidas..

And of course it is a fact that not all companies have a long history so must pick up on whatever has been invented at the they are created.

For example, hummel was started in 1923, and was one of the first companies in the world to make football boots with studs. hummel history

Adidas didn't exist until 1949. Adi history. and nike didnt coming along with football boots until sometime in the late 60s/early70s (as I recall, I dont have the exact date here).

In addition, the comment above about the development process and time to market is spot on. Development and design of a new boot is typically anywhere from 18months to 2 or 3 years before a boot comes to market. During most of this development, designs and first pullovers are kept strictly confidential inside a company. It is very rare that anything in the early stage would leak out so that a competiting company would see it.

By the time there are test samples, or sales samples available (like how Carlty has or appears on ebay sometimes), several months before the boot comes out a retail, there is certainly not enough time to copy it by a competitor (at least for a reputable company- there are always super quick shit knockoffs in china of bad quality). It takes almost 1 month just to make the mold for an outsole!

just something to consider.

R

guys what are you talkin for stupid things i just said that Umbro was copyin the idea of adidas and then you come up with "oh we have to start in the year 1949. It all began with a man called Adi Dassler ..... but in the 60`s there was also 1000 of other sportbrands for example nike (named after the greek god for victory "NIKE") ..... and there was aswell Umbro, and reebok and Puma, and ..... and everybody faked everybody cause nobody had no ideas ...."

and i do know how boots are produced man (well im not working in a boot manufacture in thailand but i saw many reports in television about it) and i even know how long it takes to design a boot and and and

it could really be accidental (or so) that they had the same design ..... but you know what .... i dont believe that mate ..... theres a chance from 1/10000000000000 that somethin like this happens

and with the stud configuration on the boots .... i know almost every boot has this one ..... just wanted to say again that this obvisiouly is copied cause you colud have done the window only above one stud (so it would be smaller) ...... but it is above the TWO studs (so it pretty much is about the same large as the one on the adidas boots)


did i answered all your problems with that or do you wanna hear more .... just ask :-)

Dude , Big Deal ?!

Im not sure if you actually read my last post, but as per the design and development time required to make a new boot (especially an outsole), what you are suggesting doesnt make much sense.

Couldn't this just be a coincidence of design solution? I'm not sure where you get the 1/100000... idea, but very often in design two independent designers/companies come up with the same solution. Sometimes a good idea is just a good idea that comes at the same time.

In any case, why are you so sure that umbro is copying adidas, anyhow? Couldnt it be the other way around?....

R

1. i know how difficult it is to design a boot and that it does take much time ... but nevertheless umbro copied adidas so i cant get what you wanna say to me with that

btw it is possible to make a lil redesign before the boot goes in production (what possibly happened here: adidas came out with the absolute ... a designer of umbro saw it and said "thats a good idea lets make the same thing with our new boot" ... and everybody said "YES" ... and the boot became a lil modification ... pretty easy (it just could have been so ... i am not working at umbro ... just a possibility to show you how easy somethin like this could be)

2. this was just an example (in germany we say : die chancen sind 1 zu 1 millionen das so was passiert.) and I do not think that somethin like this happens accidentaly at the same time, accidentaly just after another boot from another company comes out with this design ... if you think that somethin like this happens ... OK thats not my cup of tea ... BUT I DONT BELIEVE IT

3. because the absolute was there first (in germany we would say: wer zuerst kommt, malt zuerst)


so far for know ... if there are any other problems just post em



ah and frankzzz it is not a big deal ... just wanted to inform you about it ... but could you plz start to make some good logical posts (well it would be enough if you would read the other posts than you would know that its not a big deal)

actually not so easy to make "a little redesign". To modify a normal outsole to have a clear section in the bottom as the absolute/umbro you would also have to modify several other parts. The midsole (injected TPU or PE) design would need to change to have a hole in it to see the sockliner. The sockliner design would need to change to be visisble and take up the extra space where the midsole would normally be. Changes to the molds and parts like this would take at least a several months of design and modifying the steel molds.

Most of all, any change like this is acutally a major change that would affect the stability and structure of the boot that would need to be tested. I would say that testing on players would be at least 2 or three months. Not to mentioned that getting everyone to say "yes" doesnt happen overnight. It would likely be a change that would have to signed off by Sales, Marketing, Design, Development, etc....

Just some facts you should consider.

In the end, I actually have no idea which came first. And to me it doesnt really matter. And of course some companies do use ideas from other companies .

I just think that its very easy for people to jump to conclusions without knowing the entire process and how much goes into making a boot.

R

yeah i thought of this aswell and in some points you are right

but the absolutes were presented 9 November 2005 and the thing with the outsole maybe was known two or three months earlier because of the pics of blackout versions, etc. so there would be enough time to make this redesign

i even think that the Umbro X-Boot was at the beginning of getting designed (August, September 2005) so maybe they were still collecting some ideas for their boot ... and then there was the absolute ... they saw it and took the idea into their new boot

and i really know how complicated it is to make a new boot

your timing is off. you are thinking about the retail release, not taking into account production and sales periods. Just to produce a boot takes usually 90days lead time from placing the order plus 30days for shipping from asia.

Any new boot released for SS06 (out in stores anywhere from nov05 to may06) would have been shown to key account customer (stores) no later than june or july 05.

I also know for a fact that the umbro x-boot design started much earlier than you think. around june 2004. Much earlier than you think.

i dont know where you think you know your timing from, but its incorrect.

FYI, did you know that at the moment, I'm almost done development for hummel's football 2007 collection to be released in stores feb 2007? Off to china tomorrow to see samples.

trust me, I know what im talking about.

R

nice for you that you know what you are talking about

but trust me i aswell know what im talking about


sorry dude but the x-boot wasnt started to design june 2004

how would you know?

I would be trusting rkuchinsky's information more then i'd be trusting yours onkel-ruppi.

Fighting for a lost cause it looks like. Rkunchinsky would know alot more about it then you would.

i know! he works with that stuff! (which is what i want to do someday)

Yeah...it's what he does for a living, i'd be taking what he says a bit more seriously.

yeah but he works for hummel

they are a lil bit smaller than Adidas and Umbro (i think they dont have that much designer, tester, ...)

anyway lets end this right here i just wanted to inform you that i think that umbro is copying adidas

this is just my meaning ... i dont really care what you think about it ... just wanted to inform you about it