the options are: batigoal, caniggia, moreno, sivori, kampes, passarella, houseman, luque, redondo, ruggeri, ramon diaz, ortega, bertoni, valdano, burruchaga, giusti, ardiles, stibale, monti, rattin, bochini etc...

i would go for BATIGOAL for everything he have done for argentina and fiorentina

mario kempes , he's scoring record & achievement in league and NT says it all.

then batistuta, he didnt win WC but scored more goals in that tournament then any other argentine did (also argentina all time top scorer) . So i rate him higher then rest. its unfair to say valdano, caniggia or burruchaga is way better then bati just because the team the were in had a better run in WC.

but i'm sure there's lots of people out there will based player status on team achievement .

Batistuta by far. He is the top scorer for the national team and did wonders with Fiorentina. He's a legend for sure. I miss him

Batistuta, hands down. True legend, that guy.

Really strange that two of the greatest argentinian players like Maradona and Batistuta played in two italians teams like Napoli and Fiorentina that historically wasn't that great...

Maradona won two italian leagues playing for Napoli for 7 years...Batistuta never won the italian league with Fiorentina playing there for 9 years...then he won it with Roma...another team that historically didn't win so much...

I mean...following this train of thought...probably Aguero will win the italian league with Palermo...

Batistuta for sure, one of my favourite all-time players. Sensational striker, probably the best I've ever witnessed, although it's tough call considering Ronaldo at 19-21.

The purists would probably go for Bochini; I know Maradona would, as a massive Boca fan.

Batigol was amazing. We have had many great players aside from De Stafano and Diego. Gabriel Batistuta stands atop. However, one player that most of you are not giving credit is Ubaldo Filliol. I know, the goalkeeper position is not a much talked about position, specially amongst us. However, we have had a great goalkeeper. I was still living in Argentina in 1978 are remember the WC. We had a very good team, not a great team, but a very good team. Let's be honest, if Cryuff had played for Holland, it might have been a different story. But I digress, the 78 team was a very good team, but without Filliol that team would not have won. Filliol was the best player on that team. Better than Passarella and Kempes. Passarella was better than Kempes, but not as great as Filliol. There has NEVER been an better penalty stopper than Filliol. He was the most complete keeper we have ever had.

well just because you put cryuff on it doesnt automatically make the team better. Its depend to the team performance during the match.

and wht if menotti include 17 year old maradona on the team? they'll probably beat holland 5 - 1 ? no it doesnt guarentee that result either
the match was equal in 90 minutes but extra time belongs to argentina

kempes is the best on that WC, 2 goals in final, 2 goals 1 assist in semifinal, 2 goals in quarterfinal. he did everything on the knockout stage.

i wish batigol play in WC 1990.

(1) I love Diego, but let's be honest. He was not ready to be part of the 78 team. He would have been a bench warmer. The 78 team was a defense oriented team that worked with the striker putting the ball in the net.
(2) I'll admit, in the knock-out stages, Kempes performed awesome!!! But as overall player (not just as a key figure of the 78 team) Daniel Passarella and Ubaldo Filliol are better players than Kempes. People forget that Passarella is the highest scoring defender with 134 goals in 451 games.

Still, as for the point of this thread, Batigol is the third best overall player in Argentina's history. (hopefully in about 15 years he will be 6th with Messi, Aguero and Tevez having won 3 WC combine!!!)

what about players like houseman, luque, ramon diaz, sivori, moreno, ardiles, bertoni and redondo?
but bati for sure
after bati, i would go for caniggia, passarella, moreno and kampes

i haven't seen ardiles, houseman and bertoni play but have heard alot about them
can anyone help me what kinda players they are? their positions? abilities? weaknesses?

how do you know if maradona wasnt ready ? because he's too young?
messi technically still no where close to maradona.. his scoring record ,freekick, assist ,etc but if 18 year old messi is more then ready for WC how come 17 year old maradona not?

he's the reason why in WC 1979 argentina can easily won the youth title , simply because the tournament its way behind his level. 22 goals conceided just 2.

anyway i voted for bati , mario kempes & pasarella. i dont want to compare kempes to pasarella cause i dont like comparing a striker to a central defender.

I'm 39 years old and I am a soccer lover. From what I've witnessed going to stadiums as a soccer fan IN ARGENTINA.
This is my order.

1) BOCHINI was the most talented one. Too bad he didn't go international, too good for Independiente it didn't happen.
(Benj, you are right ) and scoring in top top matches with Independiente when he wasn't even a scorer but a pure number 10.
Keep this in mind: he is also Maradona's favorite player during his childhood and teenage years. Menotti picked Valencia instead of him to take him to the NT in 1978 world cup, and then Diego started to bright,
I was a Boca fan til my 5th birthday, then i watched Bochini and Bertoni playing for Independiente when they were 19 years old and became an Independiente supporter and big fan forever.

2) FILLOL was one of the best goalkeepers of all times.

3) PASSARELLA

Kempes and Bertoni huge huge players.

Too many to mention. But I will want to mention a couple of other names that nobody have mentioned yet:
MARANGONI -
MARCICO
BRINDISI

Borghi would have been top player if it wasn't for his weak mind.

To end this message, i want to mention that Bilardo, in 1986, besides a "strange" sickness that affected Passarella throughout the World Cup, he left Marcico and Marangoni in Argentina.....what a coincidence! and Bochini was called as Maradona's replacement when he was at the end of his career.

thanx for all these information. i really appretiate it. i didn't knew that bochini was that talented player!
i knew him as a good player but not as talented as u say because u placed him as the 3rd best argentine of all time
but i respect your opinion because u are much older than me and for sure u know better
i also wanna ask another thing. i have heard a lot of borghi (and pasculli), both were in our 86 squad
but haven't watched them ever. can u give me some information about these players?
it would be great of you
and another question, abel balbo is an out-an-out striker but in the 94 WC, he started for us alongside batigoal and caniggia. so how did it fit 3 goalscorers in one team?

Gabriel Batisituta for sure, I remeber when his team (fiorentina) relegated, he stayed with the team and next year they were up again

surely batistuta, in my opinion one of the best strikers in the world...that guy really knows how to score goal...

as you could have guessed i'll go for none other than batigol himself pure legend, everyone i know underates him because he didn't win a world cup well anywho not to sound biased or anything i would like to think veron and zanetti are way up there to without a doubt truly two argentine and club greats!

\\

Pasculli was just a regular striker....just to give you a comprison, someone just as Jardinero Cruz playing in Inter right now. Forgettable.
Borghi, was a number 10, someone who would kick "rabonas" with amazing perfection and stetics, plus would make a whole team play around him, his dribbling and his pace was just beautiful, he would make any move look easy. Gifted, really gifted player, too bad he chose different path.
If someone could get highlights of the game Juventus-Argentinos Juniors, Toyota World Cup in 1985, that was one of the most beautiful games ever seen. The game was tied 2-2 and Juventus won on the penalty kicks. Juventus was the unbeatable team. Argentinos Juniors was a small team, making his first international appearances but it was one of the best 5 argentinian teams ever (that i witnessed with my own eyes) Matches before that final against Juventus in Copa Libertadores against Independiente in the semifinals and River Plate are among the most beautiful games you could ever watch. It had it all: beauty, passion, dramatism, ...ufffff what a game!!!. Too bad nobody keep tapes of those games....i would pay hundreds to get a copy.

DIEGO ARMANDO MARADONA said about Bochini: "Fue mi ídolo de chico, el más grande jugador de su tiempo...".
Maradona said about him when they played together with the NT: “Fue como tirar una pared con Dios"
and also Ricardo Daniel Bertoni: las paredes que le vi tirar con Bochini, no las hizo nunca nadie en la historia del fútbol.
I can say many things about him. but the difference also with other top talented players, is that he would score in finals and important games to give Independiente the victory.
I wish I could retrieve my old VHS tapes and show you some videos from the 80's. There's got to be a way to get them somewhere!!

In 1998, Balbo was in the bench in that squad. He was replacement in attack.

Don't be afraid to ask me more things.

Regards
Arelo

Batistuta, he was a great. Amazing striker, even untill his later years with Roma and Inter.

Caniggia played here in Scotland, first for Dundee, then for Rangers, he was amazing for Dundee, he was also good for us, but he had a habit for being caught offside.

hey buddy, thanx a lot about those informations
but i am not latino, so i don't understand spanish. so can you tell me what diego told about bochini in english??
and then was borghi the replacement for pasculli or diego in 86'?
and one more, i have heard alot about norberto alonso of river. is he better than bochini? what are his strengths and weaknesses? i heard that he didn't get chance to play for argentina 78' because of kampes.
and what do you think about kempes? is he better than bochini and alonso? is he a midfield playmaker like diego or a goleador?
sorry for lots of questions but i really wanna know about these things.
and one more question. i have heard alot about River's Machine( la maquina) of 40s, but i don't know much about it. i know that moreno, pedernera and labruna were the talented players, but who is the most talented of them all? some people even tell me that jose manuel moreno was our all time best player (even better than diego, batigol and di stefano)

i will be waiting for your answers
bye
Rijesh Niraula

In ability not achievments with the NT I would pick Redondo.

hey arelo, i am waiting for your answer
i have a very long question for you which i posted above
can you answer me???

Sorry, for the delay
Diego said about Bochini " playing with him was like playing with God"
Borghi was replacement for Diego in '86.
Alonso was a great player but Bochini was better.He was so great that in the important games he would score.
He was the kind of player everybody would respect and like. Rivals would barely foul him.
Bochini strenghts are so many to name. First was dribbling, then he changed his play to just become someone as Riquelme in terms of passing the ball and making everybody play. Even today , if someone makes a great pass they call it a "Bochini pass" ( bochinesco). He said, soccer was becoming so defensive and easier to lose the ball when trying to dribble that he wanted to play at one touch and play faster. That's why the "paredes" (walls) he constructed with Bertoni in offense are the most remarkable ones ( even Diego refers to those "walls with Bertoni) .He scored a gol ( i think it was against an uruguyan team -Penarol - in an international game), dribbling through the entire defense.
He never passed the ball to the sides or back to other players...always forward, he strongly believed that the ball should always go forward.
He didn't play in 1978 not because of Kemper, but Menotti picked Valencia as second number 10.
Kempes was different player. Not comparison to Alonso or Bochini. Very Talented. Strong bodybuild, strong kick, strong minded, very powerful but not the typical argentinian number 10. He was more of a number 10 goleador. BUt overall, i think he was more of an attacker than a 10.
My father saw La maquina playing, that was the best offense any argentinian team ever had. Moreno was the most talented one ( some dare to say better than Diego o DiStefano). I think different times, different ways of playing the game.

Hop e i have responded some of your questions. I will try to post more on Bochini. I will translate some stuff i read on the web about him. Very interesting

thank you again my friend, i hope you will be the one who will give me alot of info. about argentine soccer history
and another question (sorry for too many questions!!)
can you also explain the way borghi, bertoni, alonso, ardiles, luque and rene houseman used to play
i think leopoldo luque was a striker. and is ardiles s DM or a PM or just a CM like vieira or Davids.
what are his specialities
i would also want to see your all-time top 20 argentine soccer players

i have an argentine friend out here. his favorite players are batigol and caniggia
but when i asked him who was argentins's all time favorite player, he told 'it's moreno,without a doubt!'
i was really amazed with that answer. then he said 'my father, grandfather used to leave their work to see moreno, pedernera and labruna play'
this has confused me
after that answer, i have read alot of articles about moreno, river plate and Argentina of 30's and 40s
and my concluion from reading those is that moreno was really the best argentine player!
some article even told that : 'i would say this without a shadow of a doubt that if 'charro' moreno had played in a WC, he would have been for sure the best footballer of all-time'
i also asked my friend to give his top 10 all-time argentine player. his list was like this:
1. jose 'charro' moreno
2. alfredo di stefano
3. adolfo pedernera
4. diego maradona
5. bernabe ferreyra
6. angel labruna
7. rene pontoni
8. gabriel batistuta (his personal favorite, N MINE TOO!)
9. claudio caniggia
10. daniel passarella

One more vote for Batistuta.

The man was pure CLASS.

Tough questions my friend...how to describe those great players?
Borghi and Alonso were number 10's. Borghi was more of an exquisite player. Great dribbling, fast, stylish, elegant, with the ball attached to his foot and he would shoot passes to his teamates. But, as soon as he was becoming a top player, he decided to change path in his career.
Alonso was typical number 10, maybe like a Gallardo with more elegance but not such a good kick.
Ardiles was originally number 8, but more of a "masterbrain" in a team, the man to play strategics in the field. So, I would say a number 8 and a 10, that's why with kempes in 1978 they were a good match. Ardiles played in England after 1978 WC.
Luque? number 9 with some other good skills, a striker, definetely.
Bertoni, a number 11 but not a 100% wing, very strong, great strike, but also very good dribbling, very complete. Like Passarella, every free kick could be 1/2 gol.
Rene Houseman....wow! number 11/7, he would do all the unexpected things, with things like Ortega, hard to stop without fouling.

HOw old is your friend?
Of that 10 top players of all time, 6 I haven't seen them play.
I don;t agree at all with Batistuta being the best.
In that list, of the guys I've seen them played, definitely, neither Canniggia and Batistuta would be in my top 10 list. They would be in my top 15/20.

This is my list

1 - Maradona
2 - Kempes
3 - Marangoni
4 - Marcico
5 - Bertoni
6 - Bochini
7 - Passarella
8 - Fillol
9 - Redondo
10- Brindisi

Til next one

Arelo

hey arelo, thanx again
and another question!
around late 70s, we had some of outstanding midfield playmakers
like diego, bochini, alonso. can they fit in the same team together??
and was leopoldo luque a great striker??
and another question..u mentioned players like marcico and marangoni in the top 5 list and i don't know them
can u explain me about them??
their positions??abilities?? and also something about brindisi

and another question?? i have heard alot about burruchaga and valdano
what was burruchaga's position and his specialities?? i think he is one of our all-time best player
and i only heard of valdano in WC 1986
can u also tell me about valdano and was he talented or not??
and is 70s and 80s, did we had any talented wingers??
that's all for now
bye

hey arelo..it's me ...REGIS...i just changed my username
i had alot questions for you...but you haven't answered me yet..thaught that u may have forgotten..
so i am trying to make you remembered...

Sorry, but I've been very busy, hopefully you can see a small video with Bochini in the last stage of his great career with Independiente. Second goal is against Racing, in the superclasico

Go to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4atJYEMdWY&search=bochini

copy and paste ....and enjoy

Arelo

The could have fit together, of course.....after all Brazil 1970 were all number 10 in their respective teams...why not?
Luque was a good striker, but not out of this world....
Marcico? Number 10, strong, great dribbling, he would carry the ball right under his foot.....he started in Ferro Carril Oeste, went to play in France where he had success and then played for Boca Juniors in his last stage of his career. He should have been in 1986 National team , as Marangoni, but they decided to quit the National team because they said didn't share Bilardo's philosophy of playing soccer. ( Which I agree with)
Marangoni, was a Lord in the Midlefield, number 5, all over the field, probably someone like Redondo, very talented . I think that's the best way to describe him.

Here's a link, Marangoni when playing for Independiente shooting pass to Percudani to score and win 1984 Intercontinental Cup against Liverpool. ( That team was considered to have the strongest midfield in argentinian soccer history: Marangoni, Giusti, Bochini-Burruchaga )

http://www.youtube.com/results?search=inde...e=search_videos

Valdano was a very talented attacker...he succeeded in Real Madrid....needless to say more about him....

Talented wingers in the 70's and 80's: Bertoni, Houseman, Alfaro Moreno, ........I'm sure I'm forgetting some other names....but those are some of my favorites

Hope i answered your questions ....

"til next time!
Arelo

Bochini
Kempes
Labruna
Fillol

1)SIVORI
2)
3)
Omar Sivori was one of three best Argentina's players of all time togeter with Maradona and Di Stefano

These are IMO best players after Maradona and De Stefano

Forwards : Gabriel Batistuta, Hernan Crespo.

Midfielders : Riquelme

Defender: Javier zanetti.

I guess Pasarella shd figure in the all-time legends of Arg football

How abt players from that 1940's River Plate team .. I have read a lotta abt that team.. any player from that team ?

And I dont think Riquelme quite yet qualifies to be a legend/great ?

What about Javier zanetti?

Two of Argentina's greatest defenders are about to retire. They are, in my opinion, worthy of Argentina's all time greatest team: Roberto "El Raton" Ayala and Javier "Puppi" Zanetti. Most of the time, people forget about the defenders, specially with S.American teams, but these two guys have been AMAZING for us. If you are writing down a list of our greatest defenders, they are in our top 5 list: that's how good Ayala and Zanetti are.
Also, Batigoal is our greatest striker ever. Yes, greater than Sivori. (De Stafano is not a striker)

No doubt, Ricardo Enrique Bochini, maradona's idol...
he was the only player clapped in all stadiums in argentina, by all fansn including Los Borrachos del Tablon and La 12...
.. I also have many old friends, fans of boca, river AND RACING!!! who tell me that in the 70's they went to see Bochini and Bertoni because they were incredible...

For me, one of the greatest players ever, although he had no chance in the NT... sadly, youngsters only know his name...

So true....!!! Maradona sated that playing with him was like playing with GOD, he was a big big fan of him.
Guys who never saw him play, missed one of the best players of all times, no doubt about it....

its hard 4me 2 say there is many great players but i like Gabriel Batistuta, veron and ortega...

Listen everybody!! Bochini will be back at 53 years old in an official match!!! The Magic is back!!! Amazing!! Everybody should watch him play...this is a unique moment in soccer history!!!

You forgot about your wonderful keepers like : Amadeo "Tarzan" Carrizo, Ubaldo "El Pato" Fillol, Nery Pumpido and Sergio Goycochea. They were the best keepers in their times.

We should make think about such brillant defenders like Roberto "El Raton" Ayala, Oscar "El Cabezon" Ruggeri and Daniel "Kaiser" Passarella. I think that Kaiser should be placed on the podium together with Alfredo di Stefano (the best footie player in history imo) and Diego Maradona.

Goycochea was only lucky, he can't be compared with Fillol or Carrizo.

maybe one of the older guys can confirm this but wasn't "charro" moreno the best out of la maquina?

Yes indeed. Moreno, i heard was the best. Labruna another one.
Sivori another out of this world player. I recently watched a few plays from him. He was the Maradona of his time. He could do things like Diego..make a whole stadium stand on his feet to clap him.
Goycochea.....not at all. Good keeper but not to be in all times best.
Defenders? Perfumo, Marzolini, Ayala is becoming one of them, a legend also. After the way he played in last world cup, if Argentina would have made it to the finals......he would be in the podium

Keep it rolling guys! Good names in here.

Maqny of my fathers generation rate Moreno the greatest Argentine of all ahead of Maradona and Di stefano.Don Alfredo himself who always rated the Maquina better than Madrids 5 in a row european cup team said though that Pele and Maradona were great players but none could compare to Adolfo Pedernera who Di stefano replaced in River in 1946.La Rubia saeta of course grew up in River and as a pibe would have seen all of the Maquinas games before his own debut in 45.

talking about arg players playing in arg teams riquelme playing for boca was better than batistuta and bochini, even better than maradona in boca juniors, the problem started when he went to europe.

Even in Europe he had some truly spectacular seasons before this one. The only stage on which he has failed to be truly exceptional thus far is the World Cup. He had a good WC, but not a phenomenal one. In Boca though, I would perhaps argue that he did more for Boca than any other player. Maradona was obviously a better player, but I think Riquelme's service to the club was longer and more productive. And obviously he is still the best player to ever wear the Villarreal shirt.

Another name from the past, NOT AN ALL TIME GREAT, BUT A GOOD NAME FROM THE PAST, is Miguel Angel Brindisi. Played most of his career and has some monster years with C.A. Huracan, even lead the la primera in scoring. I think his mos memorable year was when he was beyond his prime in 81-82 w/ Boca. At this time, Brindisi was not though of as much, but he had another great run w/ Boca; due mostly in part to the fact that he was teamed up with 20 year old Diego Maradona. (Maradona revived Brindisi's career)
His last job in futbol was coaching the Guatemal national team.

I'm from Argentina and i say:

1º Maradona
2º Batistuta
3º Bochini
4º Riquelme
5º Ayala

All those guys above Alfredo??

well considering he probably didnt see di stefano play much...since his accolades were in europe rather than in argentina...i would put maradona and batigol above di stefano because of their prominence in the international stage for argentina...