Who agrees with me that Jens Lehmann should not make the German squad for the World Cup or even be part of the national team for now on? Has Jurgen Klinsmann forgotten about the likes of Timo Hildebrand. Hildebrand is a much better goalkeeper than Jens Lehmann. Lehmann is dopy and has brain explosions at the worst possible moments. Hildebrand however is much more comfortable in his position. What I mean by that is he can handle the ball well, he's agile, has got fantastic reflexes and he's more consistent than Lehmann.

At the moment Jens Lehmann > Hildebrandt >>>>>>> Kahn
Im pretty sure Lehmann will be the number one this tie as Kahn just makes too many mistakes lately...

Change Lehmann with Huth and I am with you mate .
Welcome to SP btw .

Kahn doesn't do himself any favors when he plays despite injuries, the table position of Bayern is possibly too comfortable. Therefore it look like his defenders play with few intensity which allows the opponents several good opportunities, even Cologne had several good attacks yesterday against Bayern.

Lehmann on the other hand still fights for the 4th spot in England and also for the CL title, his defenders make it easier for him as they are focused on their goals they wanna reach.
To be fair, what did he had to do vs Juventus, next to nothing to be honest.

Lehmann and Kahn are both equal possibly, but only Kahn looks like to push that team and to scare the shit out of anybody.
This should give him the advantage in the end IMO.

If i have to pick between Lehman and Kahn i pick Lehman easily.Kahn should retire very soon he is simply not good enough anymore.I dont know many keeper who blunder more than him.His blunder against Usa was a real joke and the two against cologne a week later not much better.Or the blunder 2 weeks ago....
But neither Lehman or Kahn are the best keeper in Germany there are many i rate higher like Hildebrand or Enke.

If i have to pick between Lehman and Kahn i pick Lehman easily.Kahn should retire very soon he is simply not good enough anymore.I dont know many keeper who blunder more than him.His blunder against Usa was a real joke and the two against cologne a week later not much better.Or the blunder 2 weeks ago....
But neither Lehman or Kahn are the best keeper in Germany there are many i rate higher like Hildebrand or Enke.

If i have to pick between Lehman and Kahn i pick Lehman easily.Kahn should retire very soon he is simply not good enough anymore.I dont know many keeper who blunder more than him.His blunder against Usa was a real joke and the two against cologne a week later not much better.Or the blunder 2 weeks ago....
But neither Lehman or Kahn are the best keeper in Germany there are many i rate higher like Hildebrand or Enke.

Lehman and Kahn are both passed their prime imo.... that's not to say that they are crap keepers, they are still better then a large percentage of keepers world wide and both have an uncanny ability to pull off some breathtaking saves. That is why they are both keeping for two of the better teams in the world. As for giving the the likes of Hildebrand and Enke a chance, I agree whole heartedly but unfortunatley the German coaches have prefered to run with the Kahn / Lehman option with Hildebrand in their shadow, and it would be too late imo to integrate a new keeper (or newer keeper) into the line up without facing a whole new set of consequences. If I had my way Hildebrand would have been in goals 2 years ago in preperation to this world cup (but I may be biased).

On the topic of german keepers, why hasn't Rost ever appeared to be even a chance in the whole German keeper debate? I don't like him but he does appear to do his job well enough

What about that goalkeeper from werder bremen. Weisse or something? I thought he was really good against juventus he was just unlucky at the end

how bout this article?
http://www.arsenal-mania.com/news/1451884/...number-one.html

Lehmann in current form is probably the best GK in England - and Kahn really looks bad. He has looked bad for a long time now, too long. Bayern need a new GK, give Rensing a chance. Oliver Kahn is just a name these days

1. Lehmann
2. Hildebrand
3. Kahn

from sky sports




Klinsmann does his thing, no matter if it's senseful or not. It looks like he just waited for the right moment to sack Kahn, luckily for Lehmann his defenders and piss poor CL opponents made him look somehow better than he is. Lehmann shouldn't have too much fun in the 3 or 4 games we gonna have now, have fun with Robert Huth .
I don't think it helps the team to kick one of the few leader, but well, it is not the first and surely not the last time that Klinsmann made such decisions.

Germany needs a real football coach and not a guy who chills the half year and has no real idea and game plan.
Lehmann can't push our average team IMO, can't give them the 20% extra like Kahn could.

Our World Cup winning chances are gone. Full stop.
Have fun everyone to see us fuck it up already in June and to celebrate the winner that even more unlikely today won't be Germany.
I can't wait for all the excuses after the WC shame we are struggling into, get ready Klinsmann and be prepared well.

I am gutted how he throws it all away with his poor coaching since he took over.

Obviously you only watched Lehmann in CL, or maybe it's just something to do with the Bayern support. It seems that people who support Bayern will pick Kahn ahead of Lehmann, while Lehmann had the world's support who appreciate his heroics and consistency all season. For the record he made many great saves this season, and not even a single blunder.

I saw several Arsenal games this season mate and I feel that he had a more focused defence ahead of him this season than Kahn as Bayern have the easier job to do in their league. This focused play helps Lehmann. I still think Kahn and Lehmann(don't forget about the goal that almost cost Arsenal the win vs Liverpool, a blunder IMO ) are equal.

The main thing is that I can't see Lehmann leading us even close like Kahn can, our team needs that push from Kahn I feel.
Apart from that I wonder how Klinsmann can compare the performances of these 2 when he mainly is around in Bundesliga grounds.

It is not that I dislike Lehmann(I better say nothing about his current and former clubs though ) or that I am such a big Kahn fan or even biased because of Bayern.
I just have a feeling that Klinsmann's decisions don't make our german team with their few WC winning chances better overall. No matter who is the goal keeper anyway, with guys like Huth ahead of you people won't wonder at least when you conceed much.
We just got a taste in the Italy game lately, Huth played as usual and with no Kahn in there + a poor effort by the whole team we just sucked. In those situations we need a leader, IMO it's a bit GK work, to kick the team in the arse.

Anyway, our WC title chances are very small, no matter who is in the goal.

Kahn looks bad and his time has come while you have Lehman who is one of the greatest goalies today

Very right decision. Kahn isnt the one he used to be. He should have withdrawn 2 years ago. He would have been remembered as a greater keeper as for now he just cant agree with himself that hes no Titan any longer....

Well, the art of decision making is never easy to learn.

Klinsmann is an idiot

^ short, sweet, and right to the point. I love it!

Lehmann also has the ability to irritate and unsettle the opposing team's strikers, i really think this is something that helps sometimes (as long as he doesnt get sent off...)

I still say Robert Enke for Germany.

But I prefer Lehmann to Kahn, wouldn't have expected this decision though.

Klinsmann wanted to make his decision at a good time for both keeper. One day ahead of Bayern's clash at Bremen is a great timing, isn't it? He punk'd Kahn the whole time, should have made his decision short after he took over the job to avoid all that trouble.

If Kahn retires from the NT team now, which would be fair enough, a legend doesn't deserve to be treated like this, and Lehmann gets injured before or during the WC then Klinsmann can play his third choice goal keeper.

Agreed, but I watch the premiership everyweek and notice that although Lehmann can act like a frustrated housewife, does make good saves over a long period of time, going back to the FA Cup final of 2005 he virtually stopped every strike and won Arsenal the cup when it went to penalties.

Even recently he has been very quick when strikes have come out of nowhere. Yet i still feel Kahn is the one with more ability and he gets serious only when it matters i.e world cup.

Personally i would have given them 15 minutes each in goal during a training session and got players to fire shots from all angles and see who makes the most saves. Do this over 2 weeks non stop as a last test on top of their assesment and if the original No 1 candiate does not make the most saves then go over more training until there is consistancy.

Klinnsman can't manage but that does not mean that Beckenbauer and company can't tell him over the mobile phone what decisions to make. during half time or whenever. Its sounds crazy but giving Klinnsman sole responsibility of the team is more crazy. All hope is not lost, as long as Klinnsman can get reception on his phone.



Oh no everyone panic and piss their pants, there is no hope why bother, is this really the how we should go into a world cup.

Huth in goal? Okay but i still think the Huthinian methodology of these pinnacle times is that Huth is too shit to play.

He played against Brazil in confed cup, Adriano was at too much of an awkward angle to score and Huth goes and gives Brazil a penalty. After a while he gives a freekick away and Brazil get another goal. Why can't he just keep it simple.

You'll be surprised, you don't always need a world class team to progress, the current trend over the years is that big teams are fucking up, see 2002 world cup and Euro 2004. World Cup 2006 could be a gimmick, if a team can keep things simple and not make dum ass mistakes they would be wise. No fancy shit just the basics. I think Germany can do that no problem.


Yeah he was just unlucky but he made some great saves like that double save, he was awesome, he could be something very special in the making. Germany should keep an eye on him. If Germany are struggling early then it would be good to see Metzelder on and those other players from the 4-1 win over USA and see Weisse in goal. At that point there would be nothing to lose.

big mistake. huge. honestly, lehmann ever did very good for the nt. arsenal has a strong team and defens. the german nt doesn´t. he will have to do a lot more to be good in the nt.

second point, now it will look bad. kahn was doing all the ads over here in germany. everything with connected with the wc was conncected with kahn or ballack. lehmann will never be able to do that.

and, what if he gets injured. i do not think kahn will join the wc as a bench sitter *as we call it* so.. who will come? no matter who klinsmann picks, there is no way he can be a good replacement. because besides kahn and lehmann no goalie here in germany really has played for the nt... oh i think this is just soooo bad and it will get worse from here.

kahn has already agreed to be benchsitter during the cup. and rightly so. lehmann has by far been the better goalie these past few months.
bout the ads, that's pretty much irrelevant. if lehmann does a good job for germany, then the public will love him too, of course.
i dunno exactly what u mean with if he gets injured. if who gets injured?
but hildebrand and schalke's keeper, forgot his name, are also really good keepers. and so is martin pieckenhager of heracles almelo

^ Tim Wiese. Germany have alot of great keepers, but Lehmann finally conceded a few recently, lets see if he can keep his form in Europe.

Kahn accepts his number 2 role even he got robbed by Klinsmann the whole time, even he was treated like you don't treat such a legend and even he is the number 1 overall IMO.
He wants to help the team and back them.

Oliver Kahn = class act


Now that is a true statement. You just proved perfect what is going on .


I don't make panic, I just expect us to do bad. If it turns out better, I won't be complaining.

@Juan Carlos Valeron:
It was meant that if Lehmann gets injured and Kahn isn't part of the squad then Klinsmann has a problem.
The Schalke keeper you mean is Frank Rost btw .

Seriously some of you guys need to calm down.

Lehman is such a complete goalkeeper now, not only is he a great shot stopper he dominates the box and catches everything in the air.

Lehman already has experience playing behind a poor defense. This season our only first team defender has been Kolo Toure. Jens is a leader and commands the young defenders well.

Who can tell me that Kahn deserves it more? No way. Lehman has been one of the most consistent goalkeepers in Europe this season.


Klinnsman is 100% right to drop that Albino Gorilla.

too right man, too right

Good decision, its time to get a human being between the posts :-)

Fair enough but weren't it the quality performances by the 10 men in front of him that helped him big time to don't concede at all vs Madrid/Juventus? He gets the praise for not conceding but he didn't do too great even he did a quality job.


Okay, this season yes. But in general we still can't clearly say who is better.
Klinsmann made his change because Lehmann is a bit better right now. Great reason that is considering that a current bit shouldn't make that much difference to change the goalkeeper IMO.



Some people will never learn to show respect to people/player they don't like.
How poor are sentences like that? Kahn no human being?
Get real.

i think people will take you more seriously around here when you decide to change your signature photo.

1. By that first sentance your have just proved that Lehman is a world class keeper. That just shows how good he is to keep his concentration yet make crucial saves like that world class save from Raul when called apon. What did you think Peter Cech has been doing the past two seasons? Playing behind a world class defense yet keeping his concentration to make that crucial save. Yet he can still make non stop saves when he is needed more.

2. Seriously Lehman has been much better thats the plain truth. That is why he has been picked and its as simple as that. Kahn has been a clown this season.

3. What he looks like an Albino Gorilla.

lol @ albino gorilla

What does my sig photo has to do with it? It is just meant for fun.
I think people who get that joke take me seriously anyway, I am sorry for those who don't get that joke.
Anyway, it doesn't matter who has what a pic in his sig to be taken seriously.
The quality counts and I can honestly say that I produced those 4 lines better than you produced the quoted line.


I can mainly agree.
I still think Kahn was treated wrong and he surely wasn't a clown this season.
No comment on the 3rd point.

You agree on that, nice one



Lehmann is class going back to 2005 when he helped Arsenal win the FA Cup with great saves and was a saviour at the penalty shoot out and still upto today he has maintained a strong consistancy even in the last game against Man Utd he made some great saves forced by Rooney. Lehmann seems to just get better.

Of course Kahn should not be underestimated i.e. world cup finalist, player of the 2002 world cup award and making the right save in the the Champions league 2001 penalty shoot out to help Bayern become champions of Europe. Kahn is a legend for Germany there is no need for anyone to compare him to an animal even though he has had a bad season but still given time he can find his form. Why is there such a fuss, going into the world cup with 2 keepers with one keeper that has shown he can be the best in the world (Kahn) and one which is right now showing that he can be a contender for the worlds best keeper, that should be a good thing right?


Its not the sig photo its the calibre of your posts that matter and yours are fine

I think thats good so, because hes the best player

Lehmann holds the record in the champions league by not conceeding a goal for long time
plus if did watch the real match the save against raul is alread the save of the season and will be in the CL team of the yr
wat Kahn has done wat he made so many blunders this season he got merked but ac milan
against liverpool lehmann made so many save and against man united and so many teams i can mention

the fa cup final he prodcued fantastic saves

who ever say lehmann is shit hasnt seen lehman play at all this season
from my eyes i think he is the best goal keeper in the prem this year.

yeah well he might be great with a team like arse. but see, the german nt is a different story. we do not have any defence. and the good teams just walk right thru it and then there they are. someone like kahn could make an impression, lehmann? i doubt it. PLUS the whole pressure now he is number one, i do not think he can handle it that easy. it will just be hard for him now. one stupid mistake and they will rip him in pieces. it will be hard for him for sure.

i have a lot of respect for kahn that he is still going. good choice. we will need him for sure.

and energy41, i do love your sig. stefan raab just rocks. and for those judging people by the sig and not by the post i just feel sorry...

Yes, Lehmann is better this season but don't forget that he played in only 5 of the 8 games without conceeding and his quality defence in front of him.
His saves are and were quality against Raul and Liverpool. But, maybe this is just me, I can't really say that Kahn wouldn't have been able to play that good aswell.

I'm not saying Lehmann is shit because he simply isn't, I just feel like Rockin Raul that Kahn seems to be the more important player for the german NT.

As much as I hate to say this, Kahn's time is officially over.

Then again you never know, there is a possiblility that he will pull a WC2002.

None of this really matters thogh b/c he's already established himself as a legend to German fans

-------

I remember this very day...



At the end of the match he stood alone in his goal, threw away his gloves, leaned on the right post and was consoled by every teammate, Brazilian captain Cafu and Italian referee Pierluigi Collina.

"There is no consolation," he said at the time. "It was the only mistake I made in seven games and it was brutally punished."

in 2002 kahn was still seen as the hero, the guy that everyone looked up to. now, ballack has taken over this role. no need for kahn to be captain nor keeper anymore. it's coz of his legacy. but if we look at his performances this season, there's no question about it that he's over the hill.
i'm glad klinsmann doesn't make the same mistake as england did with seaman. he was way over the hill too but was still first choice keeper for far too long.

Kahn was a big part of Germanys world cup success and for a good reason, although Lehmann has the ability to be a fast reactive keeper. 2002 was an example of how far a good keeper can take you when it comes to stopping goals being scored at the wrong end, as long as someone like Ballack is scoring at vital stages like in 2002 it would keep some pressure off the keeper.

In terms of leadership Kahn is far more extrovert, has more emotional drive and is much more imposing on the pitch in terms of body language compared to Ballack. Kahn is more of a leader than Ballack but Ballack is more up the field with players.

The only way for Kahn to be keeper now is if Lehmann gets injured and if the world cup 2006 is a tense event, all it takes is for Lehmann to run into a dispute between players and he likes to run head first into a situation and could end up on the worng end of a response. Get injured and then the replacement will end up in goal. Still nothing is certain but with Lehmann's current form he is one of the best keepers going into the world cup.

What if Kahn all of a sudden regained his 2002 form and saved a few penalities and showed it in the remaining games, of course this is highly unlikely but would It change Klinnsman's decision? Seems he will regret his only mistake in 7 matches of 2002 WC for a long time.

Hsshhhhhh

Mad Jens.

Kahns time is over, he had be good for Germany in the campaign of 2002 WC and was the hero for Germany. He made so many blunders for Bayern in the League and CL cost him. While Lehmann have been outstanding in the 2nd part of the season and held a good record of Mins not conceding a goal in CL. He also performed well yesterday's game and a always a hero in PK Shootout.

So when did he have a blunder in the CL last season that proved to be costly for Bayern?
Bayern finished comfortable second in their group so Kahn didn't cost them anything until this stage.
Then in the first leg with Milan he was injured, in the second he had no chance to deny the goals but safed a penalty by Sheva at least.
So where are the blunders now?

In the Bundesliga I remember right now his blunders against Cologne and Hamburg at home, Bayern just got 1 point from those games but still won the title. Maybe this is just me, but it's kind of harsh to say that Kahn's time is over even he had just like 2 or 3 blunders.

As for Lehmann, I respect his record without conceeding and stuff, but to be fair Arsenal's opponents in the knock out stages didn't attacked good at all against Arsenal. On the one hand they played pretty bad against Arsenal but then again especially Eboue, Senderos, Toure and Flamini did a heck of a job defensively.
They deserve the real big praise IMO as they made things more comfortable for Lehmann.

Props to Lehmann for landing that record, but fair play to Kahn who was a main figure again in Bayern's double winning season .

Kahn also wished Lehmann good luck before the penalty shoot out against Argentina and was shaking hands with him afterwards even they don't like each other at all and even Kahn became kind of a victim of Klinsmann in the goal keeper question that was an issue for almost 2 years.

If that wasn't class, then I don't know what class is.

Till now he played a wonderful WC and I really hope he can play on this top level till the Final. I still do not like him, but with his performance during this WC he got all my respect, same as Kahn. I never thought he would accept the role of a 2nd man that good. I liked it how they talked before the penalties and how Lehmann went and hugged Kahn after the match. That was a great scene to watch. So Jens, go on, proof us all wrong

Looking back its fair to say that Lehman has proved everyone in Germany wrong he was outstanding against Italy but poor marking let him down and he could do nothing to save those goals.

Unlucky Germany.

I remember when Jens first arrived at Arsenal, opposition fans were slating him and calling him rubbish. I never doubted him, and people forget he was the goalkeeper we had during the unbeaten season...

Anyway, You can't exactly call Jens crap, if he is chosen ahead of a great keeper like Oliver Kahn.

yes he did improve since his stay at arsenal and he was rewarded the number 1 shirt for his county over fellow countyman oliver kahn but to be honest i dont rate him. i also don't like him i think there is something about him that pisses me off...he is quite the dirty player at times and loves to push opposition players at times and that pisses me off.

Yeah, and not many Man Utd players do that do they.......

ya know actually jens in great and kahn is crep