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Shalrie
I saw something similar to this in the Australian section and I read an article on ESPN. Article


This is a pool of players that could be in the next world cup. The bold players were selected for Germany. There are definitely some holes.

Goalkeepers: Tim Howard, Brad Guzan, Steve Cronin, Zack Westberg

Defenders: Carlos Bocanegra, Gooch Onyewu, Cory Gibbs, Jonathan Spector, Heath Pearce, Zak Whitbread, Hunter Freeman, Nathan Sturgis, Marvell Wynne, Ugo Ihemelu, Kevin Goldthwaite, Jose Burciaga, Jr.

Midfielders: Bobby Convey, DaMarcus Beasley, Landon Donovan, Lee Nguyen, Clint Dempsey, Michael Bradley, Benny Feilhaber, Pat Noonan, Ricardo Clark, Justin Mapp, Danny Szetela, Eddie Gaven, Freddy Adu, Danny O'Rourke, Quavas Kirk, Logan Pause, Sacha Kljestan, Brian Carroll, Dax McCarty, David Arvizu, Clyde Simms

Forwards: Kenny Cooper, Eddie Johnson, Edson Buddle, Jamel Johnson, Chad Barrett, Chris Rolfe, Josmer Altidore, Nate Jaqua.


What players do you think have a good chance at making the next world cup and how do you feel about our chances.
fakemadrid
I definitely think we will qualify, and hopefully put on a good showing. Remember though, we were all talking about how good we were going to be in 2006 back in 2002. We need to develop and bring the A game to South Africa.
Shalrie
IMO we are going to have a strong midfield and defense, but Eddie Johnson is the only forward I am impressed with and we could be in trouble if Tim Howard gets injured.
DaMarcus Donovan
2010 World CUP line up

------Johnson------------Rolfe
----------------Donovan
-------Adu----------------Dempsey
--------------maestro/????????
--Beasley----gibbs---gooch----wynne
------------------howard

and if we somehow do actually get the german coach who likes youth
and can make us play more offensevly we could actually get a shot at the title

oh and an interesting fact about the Us and how far they get in the World CUp

1990- group stage

1994- second round

1998- group stage

2002- quarter final

2006-group stage

so if the pattern follows

2010- semifinal

2014- group stage

2018- final

2022- group stage

2026- win the Cup
fakemadrid
You're forgetting about two of our left backs DD. Bocanegra still has plenty of time left in him, and Jonathan Spector will hopefully be a force in the back by 2010.
Edson Buddle
i like that trend lol

i think we will defintely make it out of group play

and hopefully we get adu
DaMarcus Donovan
the thing about bocanegra is that he is best suited as a CB and spector well yeah i forgot about him but could you imagine the speed we could get up down the wings with wynne and beasley but of course this is four years into the future and who knows what players we have available
Edson Buddle
yea htat is true hopefully some players start to shine in the mls so we can go all the way lol
Edson Buddle
i think we will make it out of group play. what about you guys?



fakemadrid
I think this is the same as the 2010 topic, and therefore, merged.
Edson Buddle
o sorry realmadrid i keep messing up lol
fakemadrid
It's all good just look for a topic before posting one, if there isn't one there then go ahead and make a new topic.
The Red Scare
I'm hoping some players are discovered on the "playground" so to speak. There are so many players in America playing everyday who have amazing skill. I have to believe there are more Dempsey's and Adu's out there. 4 years is plenty of time so I hope some serious scouting takes place.

Hint: start in So Cal
Juventus234
QUOTE(Shalrie 21 @ Jun 27 2006, 03:31 PM) *

I saw something similar to this in the Australian section and I read an article on ESPN. Article
This is a pool of players that could be in the next world cup. The bold players were selected for Germany. There are definitely some wholes.

Goalkeepers: Tim Howard, Brad Guzan, Steve Cronin, Zack Westberg



isnt it quinten westberg?
Shalrie
^Yep, typo from the article.

Also, I think that Danny Califf has been forgotten about because he is playing in Denmark. He's a very solid defender and will only be around 30 in 2010.
Juventus234
Also santino quaranta has been left out
bobo81
Man our mids are sick!!

I have to say I still need to see many of those guys in action...I guess are team will be much younger now. I think that can be an advantage.
fguzman84
The USA will have a solid team, with a strong D, but that wouldnt matter because the team will center around the idea of ATTACK!...this will bring us more exposure in the american market and respect in the world...everyone loves goals... also for this to happen they need to keep ADU, Johnson, Dempsey, and.... Giuseppe Rossi (italian-american on Man. U). Rossi is the secret to our success. with this new lineup and attack style we will advance to at least the qr. finals.
lampard destroys
dont forget about marcus hahnemann who plays for reading, same club as bobby convey
kawandinho
QUOTE(The Red Scare @ Jul 2 2006, 12:55 AM) *

I'm hoping some players are discovered on the "playground" so to speak. There are so many players in America playing everyday who have amazing skill. I have to believe there are more Dempsey's and Adu's out there. 4 years is plenty of time so I hope some serious scouting takes place.

Hint: start in So Cal

spot on mate i've been preaching this for a long time. i've seen then on the play ground myself. these guys and way better than most of what i see on our youth teams.but players on play grounds especially in the city where i am are not discovered. our scouting system is very poor and needs improvement.
Edson Buddle
QUOTE(The Red Scare @ Jul 2 2006, 12:55 AM) *

I'm hoping some players are discovered on the "playground" so to speak. There are so many players in America playing everyday who have amazing skill. I have to believe there are more Dempsey's and Adu's out there. 4 years is plenty of time so I hope some serious scouting takes place.

Hint: start in So Cal



i agree there are people who play a ton
Edson Buddle
your oppion i think he will make it out of group play
fguzman84
Theres no doubt the US will past through group play....our next squad will have a attack first mentality which will solve some of our scoring problems at the WC. I see many new players coming up such as Adu who will make this squad a whole lot better. i beleive we will reach the 3rd round and lose again in the next WC....but watch out in 2014.
Shalrie
http://www.soccerpulse.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=95847

It's pretty much the same topic.

I think that we will do well if we have a fair draw. We will have some exciting young players (Michael Bradley, Freddy Adu, Lee Nguyen, possibly) that will give the team some energy. Plus, I think that Bobby Convey and Clint Dempsey will be starring in the Champions League.
Edson Buddle
sorry shalrie i ddint see that

is freddy for sure playign for us?
jrlm8
This world cup is still 4 years away, I am pretty sure no one would have picked Dempsey as our stand out in 02 for this world cup. That said, yanks-abroad does a list of candidates they feel are likely, possible and might be making their way to SA. check it out
http://www.yanks-abroad.com/content.php?mo...ime&id=2119

And Freddy is goign to be playing for us. I don't see why he wouldn't.
mattzyzy
US in WC2006 played at european stronghold , even South American cant stop them . remember WC2002 ? US will shine again in WC2010 .

U go boys !
AGUIA4LIFE
depends..too early to tell, you guys got stuck in a group of death, otherwise you might of made it out, even they way you guys played
Edson Buddle
QUOTE(mattzyzy @ Sep 2 2006, 12:49 AM) *

US in WC2006 played at european stronghold , even South American cant stop them . remember WC2002 ? US will shine again in WC2010 .

U go boys !


i agree man we were in a hard group and we tied the winner of the worldcup. i think net time we'll be in an easier group and go semis
Shalrie
After watching tonight's game, I am telling you people to look out for Josmer Alitdore. What a strike for a 16 year old. He could be a monster in 4 years.
fakemadrid
In 20 years? I want to see him in 4 if he can keep improving.

The most important thing right now is to make damn sure we have a great coach going into South Africa. Bruce was great in 2002 but came out scared in all 3 games in 06. If we don't produce goals in 2010, it damn well better be unlucky or poor play than coming out in a 4-5-1 and never producing chances.
Shalrie
QUOTE(fakemadrid @ Sep 17 2006, 05:52 PM) *

In 20 years? I want to see him in 4 if he can keep improving.

The most important thing right now is to make damn sure we have a great coach going into South Africa. Bruce was great in 2002 but came out scared in all 3 games in 06. If we don't produce goals in 2010, it damn well better be unlucky or poor play than coming out in a 4-5-1 and never producing chances.

doh.gif Those damn typos. In 4 years, he will be 20 so i accidentaly mixed them together.
kawandinho
QUOTE(Shalrie 21 @ Sep 16 2006, 11:53 PM) *

After watching tonight's game, I am telling you people to look out for Josmer Alitdore. What a strike for a 16 year old. He could be a monster in 4 years.


a very big guy for sixteen i thought i was big but dammn he reminds me a bit of Adriano with a shot of that power. one to watch for sure shalrie
Shalrie
QUOTE(kawandinho @ Sep 17 2006, 06:02 PM) *

a very big guy for sixteen i thought i was big but dammn he reminds me a bit of Adriano with a shot of that power. one to watch for sure shalrie


Let's just hope he doesn't do an Eddie Gavin on us.
Romanian Magic
Looks like a good selection to choose from.
Seagulls Follow Trawler
If you read my introduction post, you wil know that I post my 2010 WC roster basically every 5 minutes. My one at the moment is,

FORWARDS

Kenny Cooper
Josmer Altidore
Eddie Johnson
Johann Smith

MIDFIELDERS

DaMarcus Beasley
Clint Dempsey
Freddy Adu
Landon Donovan
Bobby Convey
Benny Feilhaber
Michael Bradley
Quavas Kirk
Pablo Mastroeni

DEFENDERS

Oguchi Onyewu
Steve Cherundolo
Cory Gibbs
Jonathan Bornstein
Marvell Wynne
Carlos Bocanegra
Jonathan Spector

GOALKEEPERS

Tim Howard
Brad Guzan
Chris Seitz

As I assimilate into this board more, I will become more obsessive about my picks, including their future clubs, uniform numbers, hometowns, etc.
Seagulls Follow Trawler
I will post a new one about every week. I have too much free time and spend way too much time studying USMNT players.

Number-Name-Hometown(Predicted Club by 2010-League)positions

FORWARDS

#9-Eddie Johnson-Palm Coast, FL(Reading-England) Striker
#16-Kenny Cooper-Dallas, TX(Celtic-Scotland) Striker, Center Back
#11-Josmer Altidore-Miami, FL(Red Bull New York-United States) Striker
#12-Johann Smith-Bloomfield, CT(Bolton Wanderers-England) Striker

MIDFIELDERS

#15-Bobby Convey-Philadelphia, PA(Reading-England) Left Wing, Left Back
#8-Clint Dempsey-Nagodoches, TX(Tottenham Hotspur-England) Attacking Midfielder, Striker, Right Wing
#21-Landon Donovan-Redlands, CA(Los Angeles Galaxy-United States) Attacking Midfielder, Striker
#17-DaMarcus Beasley-Ft. Wayne, IN(Paris St. Germain-France) Left Wing, Striker
#5-Benny Feilhaber-Irvine, CA(Hamburger SV-Germany) Defensive Midfielder, Attacking Midfielder
#14-Michael Bradley-Princeton, NJ(Heerenveen SC-Holland) Central Midfielder
#10-Freddy Adu-Potomac, MD(Manchester United-England) Attacking Midfielder, Striker, Left Wing
#20-Lee Nguyen-Plano, TX(PSV Eindhoven-Holland) Right Wing, Attacking Midfielder
#7-Quavas Kirk-Aurora, IL(FC Dallas-United States) Right Wing, Attacking Midfielder

DEFENDERS

#22-Oguchi Onyewu-Washington, DC(Real Zaragoza-Spain) Center Back
#6-Steve Cherundolo-San Diego, CA(Hannover 96-Germany) Right Back, Right Wing
#23-Jonathan Spector-Chicago, IL(West Ham United-England) Center Back, Left/Right Back, Striker
#3-Cory Gibbs-Ft. Lauderdale, FL(Alemannia Aachen-Germany) Center Back, Right Back
#2-Marvell Wynne-San Diego, CA(Red Bull New York-United States) Right Back, Right Wing
#13-Jonathan Bornstein-Torrance, CA(Feyenoord Rotterdam-Holland) Left Back, Left Wing
#4-Pablo Mastroeni-Phoenix, AZ(Colorado Rapids-United States) Center Back, Defensive Midfielder

GOALKEEPERS

#1-Tim Howard-New Brunswick, NJ(Manchester United-England) Keeper
#18-Chris Konopka-Toms River, NJ(AS Roma-Italy) Keeper
#19-Brad Guzan-Chicago, IL(Red Bull New York-United States) Keeper
Shalrie
Pretty solid picks, but why are most of the guys on wrong teams? Is that where you are predicting they will go? And Fake is probably going to merge this topic with the other 2010 topic.
Edson Buddle
haha nice mate
and thanks
Seagulls Follow Trawler
To answer your question, yes, these are the clubs I predict they'll be at in 2010.

My alternate squad

FORWARDS

Kamani Hill
Nate Jaqua

MIDFIELDERS

Robbie Rogers
Ricardo Clark
Dax McCarty
Nikolas Besagno
Sacha Kleijstan

DEFENDERS

Chad Marshall
Heath Pearce
Nathan Sturgis

GOALKEEPERS

Brian Perk
Matt Pickens
fguzman84
the Concacaf will have 3.5 spots in next years WC.
the fouth place team will fight with the fifth place team from South America
"BATTLE OF THE AMERICAS!"

QUOTE
Americas to play for World Cup berth
Posted: Wednesday December 6, 2006 11:42AM; Updated: Wednesday December 6, 2006 3:15PM
ZURICH, Switzerland (AP) -- Teams from soccer's two American confederations will play for a spot at the 2010 World Cup in South Africa.
The fifth-place South American country will be pitted against the fourth-place nation from CONCACAF, FIFA said Wednesday.
FIFA president Sepp Blatter also decided that the Oceania champion will play against Asia's fifth-best team, keeping the number of qualifiers from each region the same as last time.
"South America will have 4 1/2 (places) and North America 3 1/2 and they will have a playoff," Blatter said. "Asia and Oceania will have five together. They will have a playoff in the region."
FIFA later said it was possible that the Oceania champion could play in the latter stages of Asian qualifying instead of a two-leg playoff.
"The mode has yet to be determined," FIFA spokesman Andreas Herren said.
Australia beat Uruguay and Trinidad and Tobago defeated Bahrain in two-leg playoffs to qualify for the 2006 World Cup in Germany. Australia moved from Oceania to the Asian confederation this year.
Thirteen European countries and five African countries will play at the next World Cup. Host South Africa automatically qualifies.



Seagulls Follow Trawler
Now that that's been announced, here are my new predictions for CONCACAF and CONMEBOL qualifiers.

CONCACAF

1. United States
2. Mexico
3. Honduras
4. Jamaica(playoff)

CONMEBOL

1. Argentina
2. Brazil
3. Uruguay
4. Chile
5. Bolivia(playoff)

Jamaica def. Bolivia 2-1(agg.)
Seagulls Follow Trawler
My latest 2010 roster

FORWARDS

#16-Kenny Cooper-Dallas, TX(Celtic-Scotland)
#11-Josmer Altidore-Miami, FL(RCD Mallorca-Spain)
#7-Charlie Davies-Manchester, NH(Ajax-Netherlands)
#9-Johann Smith-Bloomfield, CT(Bolton Wanderers-England)

MIDFIELDERS

#10-Freddy Adu-Potomac, MD(FC Porto-Portugal)
#15-Bobby Convey-Philadelphia, PA(Reading-England)
#8-Clint Dempsey-Nagodoches, TX(Tottenham Hotspur-England)
#17-DaMarcus Beasley-Fort Wayne, IN(DC United-United States)
#21-Landon Donovan-Redlands, CA(West Ham United-England)
#5-Benny Feilhaber-Irvine, CA(Hamburger SV-Germany)
#14-Michael Bradley-Princeton, NJ(Heerenveen SC-Netherlands)
#23-Brian Carroll-Springfield, VA(Borussia Dortmund-Germany)
#13-Lee Nguyen-Plano, TX(PSV Eindhoven-Netherlands)

DEFENDERS

#22-Oguchi Onyewu-Washington, DC(Manchester United-England)
#20-Jonathan Spector-Chicago, IL(West Ham United-England)
#6-Steve Cherundolo-San Diego, CA(Hannover 96-Germany)(CAPTAIN)
#4-Jonathan Bornstein-Torrance, CA(Feyenoord Rotterdam-Netherlands)
#2-Marvell Wynne-San Diego, CA(Red Bull New York-United States)
#3-Carlos Bocanegra-Fontana, CA(Chivas USA-United States)
#12-Cory Gibbs-Fort Lauderdale, FL(Philadelphia expansion-United States)

GOALKEEPERS

#1-Tim Howard-New Brunswick, NJ(Manchester United-England)
#18-Brad Guzan-Chicago, IL(Red Bull New York-United States)
#19-Chris Konopka-Toms River, NJ(Aston Villa-England)

-------Cooper---Davies-----------
------------Donovan---------------
Convey------------------Dempsey
-----------Feilhaber----------------
Bornstein--------------Cherundolo
---------Spector--Onyewu---------
---------------Howard---------------

Depth Chart

Striker
1. Charlie Davies
2. Kenny Cooper
3. Josmer ALtidore
4. Johann Smith

Attacking Midfielder
1. Landon Donovan
2. Freddy Adu
3. CLint Dempsey
4. Benny Feilhaber

Right Wing
1. Clint Dempsey
2. Lee Nguyen
3. Landon Donovan

Left Wing
1. Bobby Convey
2. DaMarcus Beasley
3. Freddy Adu

Defensive Midfielder
1. Benny Feilhaber
2. Brian Carroll
3. Michael Bradley

Center Back
1. Oguchi Onyewu
2. Jonathan Spector
3. Carlos Bocanegra
4. Cory Gibbs

Left Back
1. Jonathan Bornstein
2. Carlos Bocanegra
3. Bobby Convey

Right Back
1. Steve Cherundolo
2. Marvell Wynne
3. Jonathan Spector


Seagulls Follow Trawler
DECEMBER 17 EDITION

FORWARDS

#11-Josmer Altidore-Miami, FL(Arsenal-England)
#16-Kenny Cooper-Dallas, TX(Celtic-Scotland)
#12-Johann Smith-Bloomfield, CT(Bolton Wanderers-England)
#9-Charlie Davies-Manchester, NH(Aston Villa-England)

MIDFIELDERS

#7-Lee Nguyen-Plano, TX(PSV Eindhoven-Netherlands)
#10-Freddy Adu-Potomac, MD(FC Porto-Portugal)
#21-Landon Donovan-Redlands, CA(Los Angeles Galaxy-United States)
#15-Bobby Convey-Philadelphia, PA(Reading-England)
#8-Clint Dempsey-Nagodoches, TX(Tottenham Hotspur-England)
#17-DaMarcus Beasley-Fort Wayne, IN(DC United-United States)
#5-Benny Feilhaber-Irvine, CA(Hamburger SV-Germany)
#14-Michael Bradley-Princeton, NJ(Heerenveen SC-Netherlands)

DEFENDERS

#23-Jonathan Spector-Chicago, IL(West Ham United-England)
#22-Oguchi Onyewu-Washington, DC(Manchester United-England)
#3-Carlos Bocanegra-Fontana, CA(Chivas USA-United States)
#6-Steve Cherundolo-San Diego, CA(Hannover 96-Germany)
#13-Jonathan Bornstein-Torrance, CA(Feyenoord Rotterdam-Netherlands)
#2-Marvell Wynne-San Diego, CA(Red Bull New York-United States)
#4-Cory Gibbs-Fort Lauderdale, FL(New England Revolution-United States)
#19-Sheanon Williams-Boston, MA(Chicago Fire-United States)

GOALKEEPERS

#1-Tim Howard-New Brunswick, NJ(Real Zaragoza-Spain)
#20-Chris Konopka-Toms River, NJ(Southampton-England)
#18-Brad Guzan-Chicago, IL(Red Bull New York-United States)
Seagulls Follow Trawler
DECEMBER 23 EDITION

FORWARDS

#16-Kenny Cooper-Dallas, TX(Celtic-Scotland)
#11-Josmer Altidore-Boca Raton, FL(Arsenal-England)
#9-Eddie Johnson-Palm Coast, FL(Chicago Fire-United States)
#14-Johann Smith-Bloomfield, CT(Bolton Wanderers-England)

MIDFIELDERS

#8-Clint Dempsey-Nagodoches, TX(Tottenham Hotspur-England)
#7-Lee Nguyen-Plano, TX(PSV Eindhoven-Netherlands)
#21-Landon Donovan-Redlands, CA(Los Angeles Galaxy-United States)
#5-Benny Feilhaber-Irvine, CA(Hamburger SV-Germany)
#15-Bobby Convey-Philadelphia, PA(Reading-England)
#10-Freddy Adu-Potomac, MD(Chievo-Italy)
#20-Michael Bradley-Princeton, NJ(Heerenveen SC-Netherlands)
#17-DaMarcus Beasley-Fort Wayne, IN(DC United-United States)

DEFENDERS

#22-Oguchi Onyewu-Washington, DC(Real Madrid-Spain)
#13-Jonathan Bornstein-Torrance, CA(Feyenoord Rotterdam-Netherlands)
#3-Carlos Bocanegra-Fontana, CA(Chivas USA-United States)
#4-Jonathan Spector-Chicago, IL(West Ham United-England)
#2-Marvell Wynne-San Diego, CA(Red Bull New York-United States)
#6-Steve Cherundolo-San Diego, CA(Bolton Wanderers-England)(CAPTAIN)
#23-Sheanon Williams-Boston, MA(Chicago Fire-United States)
#12-Bobby Boswell-Tampa, FL(Schalke 04-Germany)

GOALKEEPERS

#1-Tim Howard-New Brunswick, NJ(Everton-England)
#19-Chris Konopka-Toms River, NJ(Aston Villa-England)
#18-Brad Guzan-Chicago, IL(Red Bull New York-United States)

I've devised a pretty incredible formation in my opinion;

-------------------Cooper-------------------
Beasley-----------------------------Nguyen
------------Dempsey--Donovan------------
Bornstein-------Feilhaber------Cherundolo
----------Onyewu-------Spector------------
-------------------Howard-------------------

Also, before anybody starts throwing their feces, Convey and Altidore can easily replace Beasley and Cooper, depending on matchups.
jrlm8
Eh, I still like Gibbs over anyone else on that list. He is not going to be that old in 2010. And the Onyewu-Gibbs central back tandem is appealing.
fakemadrid
Spector should be a solid expirienced defender by the 2010 World Cup.

My back 4 would be :(going forward, Spector on the left)

Spector-----------Gibbs----------------Onyewu--------------Cherundulo

Hopefully Stevie C will still be in good shape for the 2010 Tournament.

Seagulls Follow Trawler
When Cory Gibbs starts playing for Charlton (who will be relegated this year), then maybe I'll put him on the roster. There seems to be so much of a double standard for certain players with American soccer fans. When DaMarcus Beasley only starts half the time at a bigger club than Charlton, people say he should be kicked off the USMNT. But Gibbs, who hasn't played anywhere since May due to injury and hasn't played in any league higher than a mid-level club in the Eredivisie, is a god. Gibbs will be 30 in 2010, the US has a lot of talented young defenders, the only way I see him in South Africa is if he stays in the Premiership somehow and dominates once he stays there.

Spector should be playing in the center, so that guys like Bornstein, Convey, Pearce, and Bocanegra can get time at Left Back.

Not only do I see Spector and Boswell overtaking Gibbs, but also guys like Omar Gonzalez and Nathan Sturgis.
jrlm8
Gibbs has experience and has proven himself as a solid center back. There isnt someone right now that could push him for that spot when he is 100%. DMB however is being pushed by 2-3 guys. Plus for a guy like DMB we expect what we got in 2002 everytime he steps on the field. With a guy like Gibbs, we are a little less critical.
I don't see a player that could add something to the field if they try to replace Gibbs, however if DMB is off, I can see 2-3 guys that might provide a spark. It's a position thing.
Seagulls Follow Trawler
Maybe right now Gibbs is tough to replace, but I have a tough time believing that'll still be the case in 2010. You're telling me Jonathan Spector, who is only 20 and just owned Cristiano Ronaldo and Wayne Rooney the other night, is not goint ot overtake Gibbs, who will probably end up in the League Championship for a few years continuously battling injuries. Sad as it is, Gibbs has had his chance.

Let's get to an even more interesting discussion, strikers.

With the current mass strategy being used in international soccer, it seems to be highly in favor of the big-target center forward. Thankfully we seem to have the prototype in Kenny Cooper. But do we want to go with that idea, or maybe put Jozy Altidore in or maybe teaming Cooper and Altidore together. All I know is we're going to have great depth at forward by 2010 with big-time attackers like Cooper, Altidore, Robbie Rogers, Johann Smith, Kamani Hill, Freddy Adu, Preston Zimmerman, and Lee Nguyen coming up and guys like Eddie Johnson, Nate Jaqua, and Alecko Eskandarian entering their prime.
     
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